Skill Lists - Coming Together

This is a summary post to put together my thoughts on skills to build three semi-complete skill lists. Its a work in progress and I will continue to add to it.

Artes Liberales	Artes Mechanicae	Artes Probitates
Grammar	Fabric Making	Shooting
Rhetoric	Hunting	Fencing
Logic	Commerce/Navigation	Wrestling
Geometry	Armaments/Smithing	Riding/Jousting
Arithmetic	Medicine/Healing	Swimming
Music	Agriculture	Dancing
Astronomy	Cooking	Climbing
	Architecture
	Theatrics

Resolution Mechanics

In general, a skill should be combined with an ability; you get a bonus if you are trained in the skill and another bonus if you have that ability as a prime. STR/DEX/CHA should be given strong preference in active skill usage, with STR being used for tasks requiring toughness and raw power, DEX for those requiring cunning or agility, and CHA for those requiring influence or manipulation.

CON/INT/WIS might be used more reactively, or in lieu of skills. So, for an NPC who does not have skills selected (lower level of detail for skills), instead of CHA + RHETORIC to make a speech, it might just be CHA + WIS. Likewise, combining two ability scores could be used for saving throws made as a reaction to something else's action.

Thus, there should ideally be a usage for every skill when combined with one of the main proactive abilities (STR/DEX/CHA). These usages should reinforce our desired character archetypes: STR should be combined in ways that make sense for Warriors, Eldritch Knights, and Paladins; DEX for Swashbucklers, Wizards, and Monks; CHA for Skalds, Beguilers/Sorcerers, and Priests (I kind of want to call priests "Prophets!").

If there is not a good pairing and the skill is weak, then it should provide a flat static benefit to make it useful.

The Liberal Arts

Artes Liberales	STRENGTH	DEXTERITY	CHARISMA
Grammar
Rhetoric	Inspire in Battle	Memory of a quote	Teaching, informing, persuading
Logic	Assess Foe	Analysis	Dialectic
Geometry
Arithmetic
Music	Use oversized instrument	Composition, keen listening, harmonic analysis	Use musical instrument/performance
Astronomy	Blind Fighting?	Mapping & Timing	Predict Awe Inspiring Event

Grammar is weak for active use but a foundational skill; it could provide literacy, or perhaps training in pidgin languages.

Rhetoric is fairly useful. I can see allowing STR + RHETORIC to allow a front-line warrior to inspire routed or shaken troops, sort of a rallying cry. With DEX, rhetoric might allow a cunning individual to pull out a useful quote from a famous speech or bit of writing; after all, classical rhetorical training involved brute memorization of important texts. And CHA + rhetoric is a strong and obvious combination that empowers persuasion in order to gain action.

Logic is a bit weaker than Rhetoric in many ways. STR + Logic could be used to assess the difficulty of a foe or challenge, which lets a front line warrior size up the opposition. DEX + Logic is the realm of analyis, looking for things that are consistent or inconsistent -- quite useful for an adventurer in many cases, whether its needing a clue to narrow down a puzzle or searching through tomes and ledgers for a special incantation. Logical "analysis" could include topics like identifying the "type" of a creature (understanding the great chain of being fell under "logic" to medieval scholars). CHA + Logic is used for dialectic; both rhetoric and dialectic are persuasive, but usually dialectic implies a dialogue or weighty meeting of minds. It is most useful with someone that may disagree on a specific topic but shares a fundamental worldview. It is used to determine the truth of something. So, perhaps CHA + Logic could be used as a sort of "BS-meter," allowing the skilled user to winnow out truth from lies. That would be handy.

There should be a bonus for getting training in Grammar, Logic, and Rhetoric; these three were foundational studies picked up by students before they went on to the other topics. So, perhaps once you select Grammar, Rhetoric, AND Logic as trained skills, you get a bonus to your Wisdom score or some other significant benefit. If you don't get all 3, tough luck. You could also treat the Trivium as "Perception;" because Perception is the most highly prized of adventurer skills, it means that adventurers will be keenly interested in seeking out at least a basic formal education.

Now, for the remaining four arts.

Arithmetic is the Discrete At Rest
Astronomy is the Discrete In Motion
Geometry is the Continuous At Rest
Music is the Continuous In Motion

Arithmetic was very important to the educated Medieval individual. It encompassed basic mathematical operations (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division); ideas like fractions and fractional operations; and decimal notation. This is situationally useful for puzzles and construction projects as well as public administration, but not very handy for day-to-day adventuring. In order to capture this value, I propose tying Arithmatic to Encumbrance. Someone who isn't good at numbers might run out of stuff unexpectedly! As an example of how this could be done:
- Normal ENC: Item is not used up (1) or it is gone (0). Every time you use it, roll 1d20; if its a 1, its used up. Item will be all gone after 20 uses.
- Trained ENC: Item is not used up (1), somewhat used up (0.5), or gone (0). Every time you use it roll 1d20; if its a 1-2, the item is degrades one step. On average, the item is still gone after 20 uses, but the degradation is much more expected.

This allows players who want to fiddle with ENC more to take training, and those who don't to not. It also makes Arithmetic very important for the starting adventurer who needs to know how to estimate how long those torches will last or how many fights he can get into before he runs out of arrows.

Astronomy is pretty useful for an adventurer. It was the GPS of the middle ages. Practically, Astronomy was essential for precision navigation (using an astrolabe to determine latitude) and precision timing (again, often with an astrolabe or celestial observations). Someone with knowledge of astronomy could predict an eclipse or planetary movement, something that inspired almost magical awe. Thinking about my archetypes, I want CHA-types to be awe-inspiring. So, CHA + Astronomy = Predict Celestial Event. DEX + Astronomy is ueful for precision timing and location (latitude only). I'm not sure what STR + Astronomy is useful for; perhaps night fighting or blind fighting?

You could nicely capture some real medieval flavor by allowing players to use a "newly discovered" Astronomical model (perhaps, the *gasp* heliocentric model) that gives a bonus to all Astronomy checks, but at the risk of being labeled as Heretics by the authorities. Fun!

Geometry should be pretty easy to make relevant to the adventurer. After all, mapping obscure ruins is an adventurer's bread and butter, right? Geometry is the foundation for engineering as well, and many adventurers want to build strongholds. While there were more philosophical and abstract scientific applications to geometry, those most practically applicable are likely mapping and engineering. I'm not sure how to tie mapping in -- because maps are a shared party resource, making Geometry training essential for accurate mapping just means that one player in each party will be "taxed" with being trained. Perhaps it could be used for secret door detection? I do not want to blur the line too much with Architecture, however. Training could be required to utilize some magical tools such as a special compass and straightedge.

Music was traditionally restricted to a theoretical appreciation of harmonies. However, the liberal arts broaded in the renaissance to include other aspects of the fine arts including drawing and composition. So, one could easily expand "music" to be the "fine arts." CHA + Music could be impressing others by means of music, or using musical magical items (or using mundane musical instruments for fantastic effect!). DEX + Music could be used for harmonic analysis or composition, or even as a perception type skill for listening carefully. I'm not sure how to tie it in with STR other than with certain very large instruments, or martial instruments; it might be appropriate to let Warriors "play" hunting horns and drums, the musical tools of war, using STR.

The Mechanical Arts

Artes Mechanicae	STRENGTH	DEXTERITY	CHARISMA
Fabric Making
Hunting
Commerce
Armaments/Smithing
Medicine/Healing
Agriculture
Cooking
Architecture
Theatrics

Two things need to get the axe on the Mechanical Arts in order to cut it down to Seven. The items in italics are less common in our historical sources; those in yellow highlighting are least common.

I can live with eliminating theatrics. Many of the liberal arts like Rhetoric or Music could be plied to an entertaining end, so including theatrics is somewhat redundant.

Architecture and Armaments could be rolled into one, but that creates a Super Category that is easily quite useful for any adventurer. So they should stay separate.

It may be possible to combine cooking, agriculture, and healing into one. This is what Hugh of St Victor does; he eliminates both cooking and agriculture in favor of medicine (and theatrics).

Phys Ed

Artes Probitates	STRENGTH	DEXTERITY	CHARISMA
Shooting
Fencing
Wrestling
Riding
Swimming
Dancing
Climbing
Jousting

Jousting could be split apart to be seperate, making it a hyper specific skill only taken by a few (so, knights can use lances; rangers cannot).

More on the "Knightly Arts"

I've done a bit more research and come up with more refinement for the "knightly arts." One could view them as strictly martial arts, but that is very narrow. And in a swords & sorcery game, everyone will want to have them (because hitting things is more common than giving speeches) so there should be a broader pool.

I've found some really interesting stuff in my research. Here is one list of the seven "probitates" (virtues or marks of integrity) from Petrus Alfonsus (b. 1062), a Jew that converted to Christianity (and as a side note, was probably one of the most theologically significant anti-Semites to upset the Augustinian heritage of tolerance in Christianity -- acknowledge and understand the bias).

Probitates haec sunt, equitare, natare, sagittare, cestibus certare, aucupari, scaccis ludere, versificare.

These things are desirable:

• riding
• swimming
• archery
• fencing
• hunting (or falconry)
• chess playing
• poetry (or music)
  

These were skills that were seen as essential for a ruler or knight. In order to reach true nobility in the Aristotlean sense, it was also necessary to be trained in the seven liberal arts and true to the seven virtues. Thus, the ideal king would be full of integrity, the arts of a free man, and virtuous.

Johannes Rothe (b. 1360) wrote an instructional text for knights called Der Ritterspiegel, outlining their necessary training, equipment, qualities, etc. He highlight seven skills as well:

• Riding
• Swimming
• Shooting
• Climbing
• Dancing
• Tilting/Jousting (as in tournament)
• Fighting (wrestling, fencing, leaping)
  

A word on dancing. At first, it seems out of place. However, there were good social and physical reasons to include it. Socially, dancing was a catchall for many physical skills a courtier needed; remember, the ideal knight also had training in the liberal arts which covered rhetoric, debate, music, etc, but it was also just as important to have training in physical manners such as dancing.

There are also good physical reasons to encourage dancing. Just like some modern football players learn to dance ballet, the medieval knight needed to develop a nimble step and agility. Graceful leaps or precise footwork at a ball might translate directly to the battlefield. A sword dance allows one to demonstrate the manual of arms with a weapon, working in a tightly knit formation, in a socially impressive manner.

And of course, Catholic Encyclopedia provides (from an uncited source):

• Riding
• Tilting
• Fencing
• Wrestling
• Running
• Leaping
• Spear-Throwing

There is some definite overlap between these lists. Riding appears on all three. Hand to hand combat, or fencing, is included in all three in one form or another as well. So is proficiency with missile weapons (archery, shooting, or spear-throwing).

Alfonsus' list is perhaps the broadest including strategy (chess playing) and tactics/stalking (hunting). It also includes what could be broadly termed as courtly manners (poetry/music, or Rothe's dancing).

I like Alfonsus' list best as it is broadest and provides the most useful adventuring skills. I do not see a need to seperate "riding" and "jousting." A character who is adept at horsemanship and weaponry should also be adept at the joust. However, some of the items step on the toes of other categories; poetry and music steal the thunder from the liberal arts, and hunting might interfere with the mechanical arts. All sources for the mechanical arts stress the necessity of "Militia and venatoria," i.e., warfare and hunting. Plus, I want even a martial character to have to take some picks from the mechanical arts and liberal arts (so, a archetypal knight would be interested in "Militia and Venatoria" as well as "Rhetoric").

So, my list of "Septum Probitates," drawing from all of the above, would look like this:

• Riding
• Swimming
• Shooting (including archery, spear throwing, crossbows, etc)
  
• Fencing (including all hand to hand combat, including unarmed)
  
• Dancing (which includes leaping as well as courtly dancing)

That leaves two slots open. One could:

• Split Riding and Jousting
  
• Split Fencing and Wrestling
  
• Add "climbing."
• Add "running."
  
• Add "Strategy" (chess playing) and limit the Mechanical Arts to "Hunting" (stalking/tactics)
  

I am most inclined to split armed and unarmed combat, and to add climbing, I think.

Building Characters in Stages

I've been thinking about building characters in stages over time. This has a few purposes.

- Provide qualitative change to players. 4E is a numbers wankfest because the main thing that happens over time is that your numbers get bigger. Part of the compelling nature of 1E is how the nature of the game changes dramatically over time, from individual survival to running a kingdom.
- Make the game approachable to new players who need fewer options.

So, I'm thinking of something like this:

TIER 0
- Characters have six ability scores and barebones derived statistics.

TIER 1
- Characters fully flesh out their derived statistics (Select skills known, buy gear, etc).

TIER 2
- Players select one of their "active" ability scores to be a "prime" (STR, DEX, or CHA) indicating their primary strategy for success and role in the game world. STR characters acquire equipment, DEX characters become mobile, and CHA characters start leading followers.

TIER 3
- Players select one of their "passive" ability scores to be a prime (INT, WIS, or CON) indicating their primary power source. This grants access to spells or other abilities beyond the pale of normal heroes.

TIER 4
- Players begin to expand their scope. They start running larger territories and get involved with managing baronies.

This allows for more organic growth of the character over time. It also makes magic rarer and more special: it is a longer road to become an arcanist. Of course, groups with experienced players could start at higher tiers of play for more options right off the bat.

More on Skills

In previous posts, I've discussed ideas for skills (http://vedronspotionshop.blogspot.com/2009/02/skill-lists.html for example).

I think skills may be necessary for online play. On one hand, I dislike skills because they can be limiting. If you're not trained, you suck, and the action won't even be tried. They also often entail memorizing specific rules. However, that may be ok for certain game systems/situations like online play.

I want to play around with using my skill lists defined earlier, the Mechanical Arts, Liberal Arts, and Martial Arts. So, three lists of 7 skills each.

HOW MANY DO YOU GET?

I see two routes here. One is to give an arbitrary number of "skill points" to spend. Another is to tie it to an attribute.

I think tying skill proficiencies to an attribute makes the most sense. It goes along with my idea that characters with high ability scores are more versatile, not strictly superior. Giving more skill picks nicely reflects that. So, I'd say: 4+/-ABILITY MOD skill picks.

You'd get picks for all of the "passive" attributes that determine class: CON, INT, and WIS.

WHICH GROUPS OF SKILLS LINK TO WHICH ABILITY SCORE?

The Martial Arts are easy: You are proficient in 4 +/- CON MOD Martial Arts.

The harder question is INT & WIS. Should magic-users be masters of the day-to-day mechanical arts (including engineering, architecture, alchemy, medicine, etc)? Or should they be trained in the liberal arts (logic, rhetoric, astronomy, music, etc)?

Medieval priests were often -- but not always -- classically trained in the liberal arts. They could read and write and needed to understand Latin. They were strong speakers and philosophers. But, many were also grounded with agriculture and other day to day tasks.

For now, I'm going to say that Magic Users are trained in the Mechanical Arts. This links up with the idea that Magic Users tend to be linked with the "Third Estate" of non-noble, non-clerical commoners. Clerics will be linked with the liberal arts. So:

4 +/- WIS MOD = # of Liberal Arts
4 +/- INT MOD = # of Mechanical Arts
4 +/- CON MOD = # of Martial Arts

This means that characters will have 5-6 proficiencies in their "main" area of expertise, ~4 in their secondary area, and perhaps 3 in their tertiary. Over time, the number of things they are good at will grow as their ability scores improve.

You should be able to invest multiple skill points into a single skill to create "specialization" as well.

NARROWING DOWN THE SKILL LISTS TO SEVEN

The liberal arts are easy:

• Logic
• Grammar
• Rhetoric
• Arithmetic
• Geometry
• Music
• Astronomy

The mechanical arts are harder. Here are some competing lists of seven:

Johannes Scotus Eriugena		Hugh of St Victor	Radulphus de Campo Longo
Vestiaria (tailoring, weaving)	Vestiaria (tailoring, weaving)	Fabric Making	ars lanificaria— the art of dressing people
Agricultura (agriculture)		Agriculture
Architectura (architecture, masonry)	Architectura		ars architectura— the art of providing shelter
Militia and venatoria (warfare and hunting)	Militia and venatoria	Hunting	ars militaria— the art of defence against an enemy
Mercatura (trade, commerce)	Navigation	Commerce	ars negotiatoria— the skill of trading goods
Coquinaria (cooking)			ars victuaria— the art of feeding people
Metallaria| (blacksmithing, metallurgy)	Metallaria	Armament (includes architecture)
	Theatrical Arts	Theatrics
	Medicine	Medicine	ars medicinaria— the art of healing
			ars suffragatoria— the art of means of transport

Also competing: Shoemaking, Alchemy

Even though there are variations, there are some definite trends. I'm not sure about the overlap with Hunting & Warfare, for example. It might step on the Martial Arts toes. However, it does leave room for a smart warlord type character, which is appealing. Navigation overlaps a lot with both Geometry and Astronomy.

Next, the Martial Arts. These are not well defined, but I found one list of skills that knights were supposed to have.

• Riding
• Tilting
• Fencing
• Wrestling
• Running
• Leaping
• Spear-Throwing

This seems like a fairly adequate list, especially if we generalize some of the tasks ("Spear Throwing" could just become "Hurling"). Tilting could get folded into Riding which frees up a "slot" for a useful dungeon-specific martial skill. I am thinking about "Stealth," perhaps. That makes Swashbucklers the most likely to be sneaky.

There are also seven Magical (or Forbidden) Arts:

• Nigromancy (demonology, necromancy, "high magic" as from a grimoire)
• Geomancy (earth)
• Hydromancy (water)
• Aeromancy (air)
• Pyromancy (fire)
• Chiromancy (Divination from palms)
• Scapulimancy (Divination from animal bones)

They'd be linked to the mastery of the various languages. All are self-evident except perhaps Chiromancy (perhaps linked with Rustica?) and Scapulimancy (perhaps linked with the High Tongue?).

MECHANICAL RESOLUTION

Skills should use a limited variety of resolution engines to make their usage easier. Here's a few ideas:

• Dice Pool = Success of Failure (check vs. TN)
  
• Dice Pool # result = some result (number of squares jumped, for example)
• Autosuccess = You succeed if trained, you fail if not (perhaps limited to a certain number of times per day)
  
• D20 = Linear check, with bonus if proficient

In general, skills should be combined with an ability score to make a pool. I see two ways to do this.

1. Defaul Pool = 2 + 1 for Ability Score Prime + 1 for Trained in Relevant Skill
   
2. Default Pool = 1 + 1 for Ability Score Prime + 1 for Second Ability Score Prime + 1 for Relevant Skill

If you have sunk extra skill points into a skill, then you can get +1 DP as well. So, say someone is double-trained (specialized, if you will) in, say, Commerce. They'd get +2 DP instead of +1DP. The beauty of the DP mechanic is that it gives diminishing returns so there is not too much benefit in overspecializing in this manner.

I rather prefer the first method. It makes archetypes a little looser and allows the DM to slap penalties on more freely. Also, it allows some checks to not use a skill at all; just two prime ability scores (maybe best for saving throws and the like).

MAKING SKILLS USEFUL

Some skills are more useful to the dungeoneer than others. For example, I see the Liberal Arts as being a particularly weak point. Thus, careful design needs to be given to make all skills roughly equally useful. In general, its better to make a skill UNDERPOWERED than to overpower one and make it a "must-take." Each list needs to have at least 4-5 decent picks though, with no more than 2 being lemons.

For the particularly weak ones, allowing some sort of useful effect on a limited basis might be good. For example, if trained in Logic, you could 1x/quest ask the DM a single Yes/No question that must be answered truthfully. Training in Grammar might give Pidgin Proficiency with two languages.

I'll have more on these later.